I loved Anne Sexrton's poem. Her exploration of men and women was not just interesting but evocartive thanks to her use of language, images and the way she uses both. Awesome.
That is real feminist poetry IMO which sees men and women as being different and complementary. This modern gender critical feminism which blurs the difference between the sexes in theory, but which in practice makes men weak, and encourages women to adapt the worst qualities of men needs to go away.
Edit I meant gender theorist like Judith Butler, the point still stands.
What are you talking about? Gender critical feminism is quite clear about boundaries between men and women. It’s those, including ones who say they are feminist and follow a gender ideology, who blur the boundaries.
Actually I did mistype there I meant gender theorist feminists like Judith Butler. Anyway the point stands that woke gender bending is destroying society. Thanks "feminists."
You might like to try reading up on the range of feminisms to educate yourself and overcome your reactive hostility to ‘feminism’. Plenty of men are doing this and don’t seem to feel their masculinity is threatened.
I have read them all from Starhawk to Mary Daly to Donna Haraway to Judith Butler to socialist and green and “intersectional,” gender theorist, and gender critical feminists. I get there are different waves of feminism, I was a philosophy major. I get there is conflict between Andrea Dworkin’s lesbians and trans cult, but at the end of the day ALL of it is just misandry writ large.
I have to disagree with your sweeping statement about all feminists being 'man haters'. It's a sign of a closed mind--likely fuelled by anger at women refusing to play the usual games in their relations with men.
True, yet even this beautiful poem risks to fall prey to stereotypes. Men are the thinkers while women are closer to their emotions (intuition) and primal instincts. In general that might be true. But what do you do with a man who feels too much, because he risks being deemed weak by his peers. What do you do with a woman who thinks too much for she risks being deemed insensitive by others?
Constantly challenging the status quo without attempting to impose new truths but rather questioning the existing ones protects us of stereotypes. Up to some extent even this modern feminism is beneficial to humanity. Beyond those limits it becomes tyrannical
Yes, stereotyping can be dangerous, too. I was an elementary school teacher and I saw, through the years, the good and bad that feminism did for girls and boys. The statistics show that boys are falling behind now as a consequence of this support for girl power. We have to encourage both sexes.
It's true 99 times out of a hundred, exceptions do not obviate general patterns, and to pretend otherwise is sophistry. The left dying on this hill, is why I am no longer a leftist.
That may be true. On the other hand it is possible that there are some truths to which one can reach in more than one way, either by knowledge or by intuition (feeling). Once you are there at the end of your journey, path slowly begins to fade away and it becomes harder and harder to tell how you reached there. Maybe in her case it was a mixture of both knowledge and intuition…
At first I wasn’t sure what you meant here but then I realised that in the poem she says a woman writer feels too much and a male writer knows too much. I am a male writer, but I feel too much as well!
A great poem that revolves around three great subjects, The Black Art of poetry, woman and man. Sexton finds a poetic resolution to the natural unease that comes with being alive and aware of it.
This poem really brings home the estrangement writers have with the rest of the world. I'm going to take a wild stab and say her "mental illness" was extreme boredom, AKA depression. At a certain time in my life, a doctor diagnosed my listless ennui as boredom. (Man-over-seas syndrome for those who were waiting for missionaries or soldiers to come back home to us.) Even though she was doing something productive and winning acclaim, for her there was "never enough."
Great choice — someone who struggled, but through the alchemy of poetry turned her ordeals into art.
wow, i love this!
Same! 🧡
There is a sense of realism and playfulness in this poem that only a really fine poet could achieve. I especially like these lines:
'A writer is essentially a crook.
Dear love, you are that man.'
Delighted to see women poets.
How about all the women of the Beat generation sometime?
Diana DiPrima for sure, love her early stuff like The Bird Flies Backwards.
hear hear!
I loved Anne Sexrton's poem. Her exploration of men and women was not just interesting but evocartive thanks to her use of language, images and the way she uses both. Awesome.
Great poem from a great poet
A powerful poem.
I think I will go visit her grave this afternoon.
Conflict within is the most beautiful when released through art.
Yes, it’s what art is made of.
That is real feminist poetry IMO which sees men and women as being different and complementary. This modern gender critical feminism which blurs the difference between the sexes in theory, but which in practice makes men weak, and encourages women to adapt the worst qualities of men needs to go away.
Edit I meant gender theorist like Judith Butler, the point still stands.
Yes, it does need to go away. It is hurting our boys and girls.
What are you talking about? Gender critical feminism is quite clear about boundaries between men and women. It’s those, including ones who say they are feminist and follow a gender ideology, who blur the boundaries.
I think where I got confused is I was thinking of critical theory, and gender feminism while typing too quickly.
Actually I did mistype there I meant gender theorist feminists like Judith Butler. Anyway the point stands that woke gender bending is destroying society. Thanks "feminists."
You might like to try reading up on the range of feminisms to educate yourself and overcome your reactive hostility to ‘feminism’. Plenty of men are doing this and don’t seem to feel their masculinity is threatened.
I have read them all from Starhawk to Mary Daly to Donna Haraway to Judith Butler to socialist and green and “intersectional,” gender theorist, and gender critical feminists. I get there are different waves of feminism, I was a philosophy major. I get there is conflict between Andrea Dworkin’s lesbians and trans cult, but at the end of the day ALL of it is just misandry writ large.
I have to disagree with your sweeping statement about all feminists being 'man haters'. It's a sign of a closed mind--likely fuelled by anger at women refusing to play the usual games in their relations with men.
You would say that as a lesbian man hater. Increasingly people are seeing through the authoritarian man hating b.s. that is “feminism.”
U mad?
True, yet even this beautiful poem risks to fall prey to stereotypes. Men are the thinkers while women are closer to their emotions (intuition) and primal instincts. In general that might be true. But what do you do with a man who feels too much, because he risks being deemed weak by his peers. What do you do with a woman who thinks too much for she risks being deemed insensitive by others?
Constantly challenging the status quo without attempting to impose new truths but rather questioning the existing ones protects us of stereotypes. Up to some extent even this modern feminism is beneficial to humanity. Beyond those limits it becomes tyrannical
Yes, stereotyping can be dangerous, too. I was an elementary school teacher and I saw, through the years, the good and bad that feminism did for girls and boys. The statistics show that boys are falling behind now as a consequence of this support for girl power. We have to encourage both sexes.
Yes, I agree with you on this.
Look at the television commercials ( painful, I know) and you can see this disparagement of men.
It's true 99 times out of a hundred, exceptions do not obviate general patterns, and to pretend otherwise is sophistry. The left dying on this hill, is why I am no longer a leftist.
Genius
I see here that she knew too much despite being a women. Nice.
That may be true. On the other hand it is possible that there are some truths to which one can reach in more than one way, either by knowledge or by intuition (feeling). Once you are there at the end of your journey, path slowly begins to fade away and it becomes harder and harder to tell how you reached there. Maybe in her case it was a mixture of both knowledge and intuition…
At first I wasn’t sure what you meant here but then I realised that in the poem she says a woman writer feels too much and a male writer knows too much. I am a male writer, but I feel too much as well!
Boy this world doesn’t exist anymore, except maybe in $400k dual earner assortative mating NYT reading homes but not really anywhere else.
I wasn’t sure whether she was evoking stereotypes, or mocking them…or both.
A great poem that revolves around three great subjects, The Black Art of poetry, woman and man. Sexton finds a poetic resolution to the natural unease that comes with being alive and aware of it.
This poem really brings home the estrangement writers have with the rest of the world. I'm going to take a wild stab and say her "mental illness" was extreme boredom, AKA depression. At a certain time in my life, a doctor diagnosed my listless ennui as boredom. (Man-over-seas syndrome for those who were waiting for missionaries or soldiers to come back home to us.) Even though she was doing something productive and winning acclaim, for her there was "never enough."